THE EXCLUSIVE JOY ANGELES INTERVIEW
He never does any interviews. He's the man that doesn't exist but the creator of the world-wide accepted term 'EFRO'; Erotic
Female Relieving Observance: a quite simple and clean voyeuristic natured fetish which basically means: watching pretty girls
poo or pee. The fetish itself is as old as humanity itself but never had a name. Until Joy Angeles came along. And he changed
the world of many EFRODIANS forever.
Joy Angeles himself dissapeared a long time ago and handed over his website to his administrators and webmasters, only jumping
in when there was an emergency. And an emergency has occured: The creditcard processing company for Joy Angeles doesn't get the
websites' monthly revenues since december 2011, leaving the site without budget for it's models: a quick and certain death.
But not for JA himself. We met him in Stockholm, Sweden for this very first interview ever with the Efro-Aenigma.
It's been a while since you even made non - Efrodians laugh with your comments on the old Joy Angeles Forum. The whole cummunity was at your feet back in 2005
and you were worshipped as the king of the EFRO genre. What made you decide to leave?
- I never meant to be in it for longer than a year. I don't like the adult industry, didn't wish to be part of it. I just got this idea when I saw there wasn't
much EFRO material available on the internet in those days. Japan was the only country who actually had this fetish as a mainstream, accepted fetish. You had
Germany with their filthy moustache scheisse videos and you had some daring private persons in the USA sharing some clips. But I saw there was certainly a need
for the cleaner material. Just the pretty girl doing her thing. That's when I got the idea of putting out my version of the fetish - which became EFRO. And I
only wanted to set out the basics; show people how - in my opinion - models should be featured and what they should do in a clip. Once I gave these examples I
left. And I actually stayed too long. Probably because it was quite funny to explore the possibilities and the overwhelming success was very nice too.
I heard you almost sold your website for a lot of money (the estimated figure remains unknown) but at the last moment canceled the deal. What happened?
- It wasn't managed as I wanted it to be managed. Especially the presentation. Right after I left my co-workers announced the next update as: 'Cum on in! Shitty
Pics for ya all! What are you waiting for? Subscribe now!!'
I thought that was such an infantile and cheap way of presenting this thing. I was looking for a more sophisticated crew.
Did you find them?
- Not really, no. I tried a lot of webdesigners - all so much better than myself, but they kept choosing the wrong pictures. The guys communicating with the
models couldn't communicate with the models. Well, they could - but the models left after 3 emails. Up to the choice of the font - I had to come back in and
make adjustments. And most of the time that meant redoing the whole update.
So you stayed the owner and had the final word of what was put online?
Yes. Up until now I dissagree with at least half which is put online, but then again they oftentimes don't really have a choice: it depends on the models;
they are directing their own clips.
What are the most important adjustments you make?
Oh, that's quite a lot still... To the models it's: 'Don't let a cameraman film you. Film yourself. And if he insists, don't let him zoom in. Don't shake,
don't film against the light, don't stand in front of a brightly lit window as we won't see you. Don't film if you don't need to go. Don't wear socks.
Don't be naked. Don't do scat. Don't smear. Wear nice clothes, wear shoes or boots.'
Wouldn't that be the logic thing for them to do?
No... for some reason I have to do all to get the girls out of that cliche image. It's perculiar, but if I woulnd't say nothing, they would step in frame,
wearing socks and a t-shirt, start rubbing their breasts, squat down in a very unsexy position - out of frame most of the time - and pick up their poo and start rubbing it over
their bodies. Many times I have to answer: 'Why are you doing that? All I want you to do is take your cam, go outdoors, find yourself a nice or even daring spot in a forrest
or next to a road or highway, somewhere in nature, wear your clothes, put down your camera and just sit down - that's all. Please don't rub, don't eat it, don't touch it. Don't
spread your buttcheeks, don't stick your finger up your butt - just imagine you're on holiday, walking on a road somewhere near a camping - and suddenly you need to go:
that's what we need to see.' It's all very innocent. Boring almost. And the models are just fine. It's their boyfriends whom are being the creative German minds behind the
smearing clips we still get. Then I have to ask her: 'Please film alone.' And after 5 or 6 clips - sometimes - very nice things are recorded. But it's quite an investment,
because we always paid for the testclips. If you don't do that, they will go: 'Ah, this is just a scam.' And it makes perfect sense that they think that.
So it's an investment each time. Once some kind of relation is established via email (and that takes at least two dozen of emails) things will get magical though.
Most of the girls are willing to take that extra step for you then, and really start to get the hang of it. It's great when you are mailing back and forth with ideas; you're
directing them from a distance. And it's absolutely wonderful when finally she presents a clip she's proud of, and I can tell her how good she looks and how the members will
love it. Those are the highlights.
Just to get an idea: How much money is invested until you get what you want?
- That varies, but it's quite a lot of money. Until I get what I want... I think that's about EUR 1.000,- per model. Sometimes sooner, sometimes never. It's always a kind of a
I heard you even donated free cameras to your models to get better image quality?
- I did that back in 2005 yes, but there's no way we could do that nowadays. And many times models just didn't get it: they took the money of the camera and left.
Not realizing they better could have recorded 3 clips; then they already would have had the same profit - plus the camera. But most of the models I must say are very, very
responsible. They never ever cheat, keep a list of clips they delivered, never try to squeeze in false numbers. Never.
But with over 150 girls under your belt this procedure must have costed you a fortune.
- Yes, but it was profitable still. Very profitable the first two years. The website did very well the first 4 years.
How sour must it be to see your entire catalogue being robbed from your website and put all over the internet, on about every fetish related streaming website?
- It's not as much sour as it is... amazingly stupid to watch these people do that. They don't seem to realize this means party over within two or three years.
When the piracy first started, back in 2006, I actually encouraged it: 'People who cannot pay memberships... by all means, take it for free. Why not?' But then came these
filesharing servers like www.oron.com and www.rapidshare.com and that meant going doing 50% with the sales. Meaning no more updates twice a month - now it was once a month.
Meaning people lose half of their collection. But then came the streaming sites and that was the final blow for websites providing for niches as small as the EFRO niche.
Now we had to cut down the salary of the girls - meaning less quality.
If you look at how Joy Angeles was back in 2005, the difference is astonishing indeed. You made little feature films, frequently parodies on famous motion pictures.
I remember being blown away by Turd Raider (a spoof on Tomb Raider).
- Yeah, I didn't realize exactly how famous that clip with model Jeanne-Marie became, but if you Google it, it's everywhere. But clips like that...
these are the clips that can be uploaded everywhere, just because they're funny. It's the uploading of entire updates which is killing the website.
As soon as an update is online, it's being uploaded on forums like Extreme-Board, right? With double download links. One to www.oron.com and a secundary one.
- Well, I tell you what the real mind-boggling thing for me is: You think: 'Okay, rob my site, steal everything you can... this is what we do; this is mankind at it's best.'
But these forums like www.extreme-forums.com actually CHARGE MONEY to let you see the content their own clients STEAL for them: this is absolutely crazy: these poor guys; these
internet Robin Hoods don't realize they're now working for a PAYSITE. It became a paysite, like Joy Angeles. With the big difference they let these guys steal content.
And these guys get paid a little or get access... it's really clever - but so stupid and sorry ass at the same time.
Can you imagine? Four adolescents with pimpled faces who cannot even pick up a camera and film their girlfriend's ass - because they don't have a girlfriend - are only capable
of being the parasites. And if that's not bad enough, they are actually killing the few good men who are out there, making the clips, talking to the girls, investing,
grooming them. Up till the point till the pimpelheads force the producing cool guys into a position where they have to say: 'Sorry, I don't have the money anymore.'
The goodlooking girl, who could well be a supermodel in many cases... she says: 'Well, that's too bad.' And off she goes. There's that famous model in Denmark that used to work
for Joy Angeles... I know her; it's amazing she went all the way up there. Makes me smile to see her, but it also makes me think:
'Guys, if you only knew what you just fucked up here...'
Because that's another feat of Joy Angeles, right? The girls are the upper-class, ordinary schoolgirl type of girl:
that pretty girl next door who secretly found Joy Angeles when, in a crazy moment, Googling the word 'poop'.
- That's how virtually all girls found us. Amazing, really amazing how some of these girls look. I always was fortunate to receive their pictures, for their ID and agreements.
But all the really goodlooking girls - obviously - didn't want to show their faces. Many times I went: 'Guys, guys... if only you knew what you're looking at right now...'
Sometimes members write the admin saying: 'I download your clips illegally because you refuse to listen to your customers: we want to see their faces and you just refuse,
so I won't subscribe.'
As they don't seem to care about the thing I personally found a thousand times more appealing than seeing a couple of Brazilian prostitutes: the Dutch or Swedish young girl who
secretly records herself in her room or takes her camera secretly to public places to relieve herself there... If you know girls in general: there is absolutely NO WAY
these kind of girls would EVER do this. And it's so interesting to see what the internet can do: they are alone at their PC, finding this website... figuring:
'Well, it is legal, I can make some nice money, I won't be rcognized... why not.' If you would have asked me 10 years ago if girls - goodlooking girls - would seriously consider
the possibility of taking a cam, sit in front of it and poop a big turd... there's absolutely no way I would have believed it. But they do.
That's maybe the only thing that makes me sad: So many people who prefer the shit smearing prostitutes with the needle-marks in their necks... and you see a drugged face saying
these cheap lines... it's incomparable to the girls we used to have. Even Joy Angeles had to make the switch to these kind of models. Even Joy Angeles at one point let go of my
principles: NO SCAT. No smearing. No guys visible. What annoyed me was that these filthy clips actually sell really well. Funny how the world steers you to that filthy corner.
You try to make a difference, try to provide the true gems - ending up being screwed by the world around you. But that's part of the game ofcourse. You keep on doing it for the
handful of guys (and girls, surprisingly) that really love the JA stuff. Those are the paying members who are so aware of the problem: we're losing the fight.
And if we lose it, we're gonna lose all future clips. All these pretty girls who show themselves in 2013 and 2014... it won't exist.
And the same clips will be rotating all over the thousands of streaming sites.
- Exactly. And it's so damn obvious: producers can't pay the girls - we all lose our new material.
What would be the perfect solution?
- It's so damn simple. EFRO people united: I hereby enpower everybody to act on my behalf: as a representative for Joy Angeles: get the material off the filesharing servers.
Don't let these people upload it in the first place. I never said this before but: sign up. Sign up now and here with the producers - any producer of original content -
because we need your damn money. As long as you're giving it to the piracy boards like Extreme Forums... give it to the cool guys who provide you with the content.
Because - in the end - THAT is what you want. There are no excuses. I read people saying: But JA steals from Redtube or Amateur Community.
What's the story behind that?
- That is perhaps the most ironic one: I always said to my models: Sign a contract, but do NOT sign away your master rights: this is your own footage. And you are free to resell
your own footage after 3 months of exclusivity on Joy Angeles. Well, that's how you should treat your models. And it works: they are double motivated to make great clips because
we let them resell their clips. So it appears on the sites the models sell it to. And at the end of the story people go: 'JA steals it.' No suckers...
I spent money on clips from models and let them keep their material.
This is probably the reason Joy Angeles is about the only website on the planet where you see models actually return. Oftentimes old faces suddenly return.
- Yes, because they worked well with us.
Until the problems got too big, which is happening now.
- Well, we could manage to pay all our models. But indeed the problems are coming from all possible corners now: VISA and MASTERCARD are witholding payments since december. Our creditcard processing company can't pay us.
That's why we switched to another website and a secondary creditcard processing company. Meanwhile some not so intelligent
people insist on robbing each new update and are posting it everywhere... even I as a member would probably think: 'Well, the hell with it: I can watch it all for free.
I sympathize with your problems mr Angeles, but I got all the shit I want right in front of me. Sorry.'
I completely understand that. But in the meantime I'm telling you there won't be a clip to rob within a year if we don't get immediate support.
It's almost like you're saying: 'Sorry folks, you have no choice: you have to pay.'
- It's just like that. I heard some silly people claiming such outrageous claims that 'the internet should be free' or 'all digital files should be free' or
'buying digital files is a thing from the past'. It's so unbelievably ignorant. Hey, they would be right the moment the MODELS are GIVING us all these clips for free.
And webmasters are working for free and everybody would be doing this for free. And I can see these same guys standing in the cue with their groceries: Why do they pay anyway?
Why not claiming this should be free too? Why don't their bosses say: 'Yo, why don't you work for free from now on?'
Even a 5 year old understands this is not how the world works and it won't be long until people will realize this. But I guess they have to have the experience first.
EFRO is the first to go... but up until Hollywood: it is collapsing. Look at the music industry: it collapsed several years ago. But the EFRO community...
look throughout the ages... how much material of pooping girls is there? Everybody suddenly realizes at this point: 'Oops... there's none.'
And there was virtually none - till Joy Angeles came along. Guys, this is such a fragile little community. Yes, let's throw some money to it. isn't it worth it?
And let's actually throw a LOT of money to it. You know why? Wouldn't you like it to expand? Because we want to expand; we want to feature the whole model.
6 models, 10 models going together simultaneously, like the woodpooping pic. There's so much we could do. Screw the 3D stuff, I'm not talking about technical stuff -
I'm talking about the girls and what they can do. There are so many ideas, I'd say you haven't seen anything yet.
So what is your strategy now?
- At first transfer all members to www.efrodisiac.com to see what will happen with the creditcard processing. With all the money coming in - if any - invest in as many models
possible and just try to suprise the members with splendid footage. Then double or triple the girls working for the sites so we can have both www.efrodisiac.com and
www.joyangeles.com operative - and dominating the globe. Dominating is the only way; being prosperous is the only way to get the material we want to see.
Now all boils down to the money. Lots of it.
Do you think you will succeed in the end?
- Not me, not now if I tell you the truth. I think a total collapse is inevitable. Then, after 4 or 5 years people will slowly realize: There's no material and there won't be
any material. And that will be the time people will want to pay for the productions again. And if they do it en masse...
great, great things, things we don't even dare dream of might happen.
copyright Joy Angeles 2012